PP014 | Victoria Penrose | Discover What It Takes To Be A Professional Make-Up Artist
Plannerspod Make Up
Victoria Penrose is a professional make-up artist and graduate of the London College of Fashion. She has worked in a wide variety of jobs from TV to Commercial but mainly focuses on editorial and fashion. A confident, dedicated and respected makeup artist and hair stylist with a clean and inventive approach. She has a broad knowledge of the history of fashion and takes influences from the past and is dedicated to following current trends. In this interview she talks about what happens behind the scenes and how she got to be trusted with some of the most well known faces around.
In this interview Victoria reveals:
The work she has put in, to becoming a first call makeup artist at the BBC and how she got there.
The valuable prep routines she gives her private clients to ensure they are shining when they need to be.
Where men stand today in the world of make-up!
Links
Media
Show Notes
00:48 - Opening words with Toby and James.02:57 - Interview with Victoria and Toby.03:37 - Find out the range of work Victoria does as a makeup artist.05:58 - Where Victoria posts photos of her work.07:30 - Discover the importance of website to showcase your portfolio and show-reel.08:20 – Find out where you can find Victoria most of the time.09:24 - Find out where Victoria gets her referrals.10:18 - What's a bride's number one concern when they book a makeup artist.10:54 – Victoria tells Toby the sort of questions brides ask her before booking.12:16 - Discover why Victoria doesn't send photos of her past clients.13:34 - Why people's preference is objective.16:04 - The importance of hiring a professional makeup artist.17:13 - What are the preparations that makeup artists do.18:17 - Find out the specific ways of approaching makeup.19:47 – What can happen on your wedding day that a makeup artist can help you with.20:21 – Discover tips on how to deal with photographers on your wedding day.20:55 – Fond out what makeup artists will tell you about your skin.22:56 - The difference between makeup in men and women!23:12 - The latest trend in male hairstyles.23:34 - What makeup artists do for men.24:26 - Why Victoria thinks makeup for men makes a huge difference.24:43 - Why people will be more accepting of makeup for men.25:25 - Find out the things that Victoria does for her work.26:01 - The craziest situations Victoria had to deal with.27:17 - Find out the characteristics that make a good makeup artist.28:51 - Discover the most challenging people to do makeup for.29:48 - How Victoria advises her clients on how to do their makeup.30:30 - Find out how eyelashes make a difference.31:41 - Discover Victoria's favorite location when she’s working.32:07 - Where's the furthest place Victoria has worked.33:37 - The pros and cons of being self-employed.34:07 – Get honest advise on how to get into the makeup industry.34:57 - Find out where Victoria studied.35:17 - Discover how art will help you practice makeup.36:25 - How Victoria started freelancing.36:51 - Find out the difficulties Victoria had to face when she started freelancing.38:31 - The perils of being self-employed.39:42 - The importance of having an accountant.41:18 - Find out why it's difficult to give work experience in Victoria's position.42:21 - The power of persistence.42:43 - Discover the male makeup artists.43:23 - Why some people don’t do both fashion and film.44:23 - Find out the sacrifices Victoria has made.47:07 - Why the sacrifices are worth it for Victoria.47:32 - Find out where you can contact Victoria.48:10 - Closing comments with Toby and James.
Transcript
Victoria: I've done people's makeup struggling their lap at the back of cars, on the way to filming because they were late getting up. I've done people's makeup on boats when we're moving, on trains, they were always difficult. In very wet environment from where we're filming at the side. When it's cold and wet, that can really be difficult because we're all tired, we're all fed up but we all love to make that to the presenters as comfortable as possible and happy as possible.Narrator: Toby and James are involved in amazing events all over the world. You're listening to PlannersPod.com, where top event professionals share real world experiences and cutting edge ideas. Sponsored by Metropolis-live.com.Toby: Hello and welcome back again to the PlannersPod. I'm Toby Goodman with James Eager. How are you again, James?James: I am exceedingly well. Excited to be back for episode PP014 or 14.Toby: Well, they're both the same. Who knew? Anyway, right, here we ago. I never thought I'd say this in my life but today it's all about makeup. Little did I know, I will live to have a conversation with a makeup artist and also I find it interesting. But we live and learn and life's a wonderful thing. Today, I'm gonna talk to a lovely lady called Victoria Penrose, she's a makeup artist and hairstylist, based between London and Cornwall and is available for all your needs--- makeovers, weddings, music promos, model portfolios or special occasions. Now, if you don't know where Cornwall is, it's the bottom of the UK, it's very nice and quite rural. She's from there and she talks about that quite a lot, although you'll find out that it's not just London and Cornwall she rose and she's been everywhere. By the end of this conversation, you'll hear her open up about the kind of amazing places that she finds herself in. So, yeah that's that. James, have you got anything else to say?James: No. It's really interesting episode coming up here. Like you, I never knew that I could find makeup quite this interesting but do check it out. You'll hear Victoria, she's got a slightly interesting accent for those of you who aren't in the UK, that is a Cornish accent. So, do check that one out. So, anyway, anything else to say, Toby or should we get on with it?Toby: No, we can discuss accents later. Let's hear my chat with Victoria Penrose now. See you at the end.James: Alright.Narrator: Planner's Pod is sponsored by Metropolis-live.com.Toby: So, Victoria, how are you?Victoria: I'm very well. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Toby: That's a pleasure. So, you're a professional makeup artist.Victoria: Correct.Toby: And other than my limited knowledge, I don't really understand what makeup artists do on a day to day basis. So, I'd be really interested in finding out a bit about the kind of range of work you do. I know you work in tele. I know you do private clients and private event work, as well. So, what's the sort of range of stuff you do?Victoria: So, makeup artists range can go in many many different category. So, they could do theater, they could do film, they can do editorial which is fashion or they could do TV and then I think all of those people on the side probably do things like weddings, red carpets, private celebrities which is sort of something that goes a long side when you're doing big batch filming or you're working on a play, whatever. But it's just a way of adding during calm and just keeping a bit of going when times might be quiet or other areas. Because everyone knows self-employed, you're not always super busy all the time. So, weddings are definitely something that are always there and always really fun to do. It's quite good and quite hard work but also pay quite well. So, there's another side of what we do is, as what's been on TV makeup artist which I am.Toby: What's your kind of main thing at the moment?Victoria: I'm freelance at TV, makeup artist and hairstylist. So, I've got different clients, different production companies use me regularly.Toby: Right.Victoria: I've got a regular contract to the BBC for all the news readers and at Aljazeera for all their news readers as well. So, they're sort of my bread and butter. I can do as much as that or as little of that, as I'd like to because alongside that I film TV series, so, I'm like an entertainment artist. So, I do the things that people watch on Saturday nights, Saturday mornings, weekday mornings, I do a lot of magazine shows, game shows, family entertainment, reality shows and then, obviously, my private celebrities in wherever shows they're doing, at the same time, I'll follow them, alongside it.Toby: Wow. So, without breaching any disclosure agreements, can you tell us any of the people that you work regularly that are famous?Victoria: I can. This is a pool of makeup artists, who we all look after the same sort of girls.Toby: Okay.Victoria: So, probably wouldn't want to step on too many people's toes.Toby: Sure.Victoria: By saying too many names. But, if you just go to my website, you would see everyone I do.Toby: Okay, fine.Victoria: And I often tweet pictures and Instagram pictures of who I'm working with, just to keep people up to date with who I was filming, at any given day.Toby: Okay, got it. So, you're pretty active on social network?Victoria: I am, because as I'm a TV makeup artist, I have no proof of what I do daily. So, editorial makeup artists have a book, a portfolio- full of shots or have a lot of covers, so we call them tear sheets. So, that's a new tear sheet of a magazine. I don't get any of those because I do probably about 10 percent editorial work.Toby: Right. Okay.Victoria: So, to prove to people that I am busy and I do work everyday, the way I update my website quickly is by being very active on Twitter and with Facebook business page and on Instagram. Daily I update what I'm doing, what makeup I'm using, who I'm filming with, where I'm filming, just so anyone who gets on the website can say, 'Okay, she's busy'. Even if the website can't physically change its appearance or if I can't add to my showreel, I can at least say that I'm doing something everyday.Toby: Right, okay. So, the most easiest way to find out the range of what you're doing at any given time and to find out who you're working with, different celebs and stuff, is literally just to follow you on Twitter and find out on that site. You also kind of helping people with product selection I guess, as well, when you're showing them using this product.Victoria: Yes, very much so. My website, at the top of my website, has older links to all my social media pages and so you can have a look at my website and see my portfolio, see my showreel or see the celebrities I've worked with or you can click one of those and it might just be a little picture of me with the film crew on a beach in Brighton saying, 'Yes, we are filming on this location today. What a lovely weather'. Or it might be some products that I've been using that I think are amazing and I want people to try. Because lots of people also ask questions a lot about what I do and what I use. So, that sort of a way of getting that out there as well.Toby: Very cool. So, let's talk about weddings, as well. I mean, obviously, that's something that you're really into.Victoria: Yeah, I love weddings.Toby: And you do stuff, you live in London but you also spend a lot of time in Cornwall. Is that right?Victoria: Yes. I've got a home in Cornwall and a home in London, so, I sort of... majority of my time, I'm in London because I do TV but because Cornwall is such a massive part of my life, all my family and friends are there. I take a lot of weddings in Cornwall and actually some TV jobs in Cornwall, as well. Because that way, it gets me done there, it gets me in the industry, Cornish wedding industry is very big one and it's great chance to see family, at the same time.Toby: Yeah, very cool. So, what's sort of number one concerns of wedding client would come to with, and I'm assuming that wedding client is normally your first part of call is a bride.Victoria: Yes. So, very rarely, it will be a wedding planner. It's sometimes a wedding planner but I would say in Cornwall there is a such a big deal for wedding planning because most people know Cornwall very well, they're probably only be from out-of-towners. And also just budgets are so low in Cornwall, so it would normally be directly from the bride, unless it's a London wedding.Toby: Got you. Okay.Victoria: And it will genuinely be a friend of her friends, you know, recommendation from a bride, from her sister, from her bridesmaids, who have already worked on. Or it will be through the venue, so I have few venues around who have me on their books and then they just give my number out whenever anyone needs help.Toby: Sure. I know you're pretty busy and obviously being tied up with referrals is the best way, anyway, isn't it?Victoria: Yes. There is not many days that go by that I don't get an email from a bride about a wedding. And it could be London or Cornwall, any kind in between, weirdly.Toby: Yes, sure. I suppose that's because you know, you've got a whole community of colleagues and friends in London, too.Victoria: Exactly.Toby: So, that's cool. So, tell me about what's a bride's number one concern when they're trying to choose and book a makeup artist?Victoria: So, they'll go on website, obviously. Website is really important and they'll go, obviously, through things at social media. If your website looks tacky, if the photos are bad, if you haven't got very good references. I think it really helps that I do a lot of TV work and work with celebrities, I think people take some notice of that and probably think, 'Well, she's probably very good if she's doing that other work as well'. So, go to that, then they'll start e-mailing the makeup artist.Toby: What sort of questions do they're gonna ask you, what are they gonna be concerned with?Victoria: First thing is, will I travel? Because they aren't always sure where the makeup artist will stay in their time or will they travel ten miles or 50 miles. I mean, I travel 500, I've done weddings in Scotland, it doesn't bother me the slightest. But some people, due to family commitments, whatever... will only do certain brides, in certain areas, at certain venues. That's the first thing. Obviously, money, that's a big factor, can they afford to book me and thirdly, do I do trials? Will I come to them or do they have to come to me? Some people ask what products I use, which is not often but some people do ask what products.Toby: Do they ever ask about what you've done? Is there an occurrence in a bride being able to say, 'Oh, my makeup artist works on such TV show'. Does that come up?Victoria: They never ask me, I guess, because they see my website so they already know.Toby: Right.Victoria: Some brides do ask for photos of your work, of past brides, which I have some on my website but not many, which I'll never send because....Toby: They're private.Victoria. No, it's not. This is a conversation I have with a lot of makeup artists. It's maybe, we don't really, what we are showing on our website and what you know from our reputation is all we need to show and if I was gonna send you a picture of a bride I did two months ago, she might be six and a half done with very pale skin and bright beautiful red hair, I can send you that photo, but you are mixed race, you’re 12 stone, with a completely different bone structure. That has no absolutely no relevance on your wedding, at all. So, we don't send them because it's pretty pointless and we kind of say, 'Look, you can see what we've got on our website. We don't really do more than that'.Toby: I suppose the other thing about that is really interesting because I've got a total parallel with that with work. We do on the music style at Metropolis and as there are a couple other things as well that I suppose can count towards or against you, other than the bride of the subject in the photo, it's the photographer, it's what they're wearing, it's the background and all these things subconscious, kind of you know...Victoria: Yes, you can say all of that in.Toby: People don't realise, do they? I think it's the same when people say, you know, 'Can we come and see your band?' and we just say, 'Well, no. We are gonna be playing in a location that is not the same as yours and we'll gonna be playing music that is...'Victoria: You might don't like...Toby: Yes, specifically for those people, not you.Victoria: So, it's objective.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: And also, I don't really ask. I mean, I've done so many beautiful brides and I keep thinking, 'Ah, I'd love a photo of that girl'. Then, the week goes by and then they get busy and it would mean me chasing up a photographer and a bride, and try to find their email. I just don't need it, we're too busy to sort of have a massive portfolio of photos.Toby: Right.Victoria: I mean, ninety percent of photographers I work with are amazing especially in Cornwall, really really good photographers. But you're right, we just don't even show the work or it's too far away, anyway, so what can you really see?Toby: Sure. So, you've got to the point with your reputation and your CV and your website that you just simply don't need to get into that kind of to-ing and fro-ing with your prospects.Victoria: No, I don't. None of the makeup artists I know. If you speak to any of them, any of the TV makeup artist, we don't do that. We just don't need to do that. That might sound awful but....Toby: That's just how it is. It's cool. You're doing well.Victoria: Yes, it's just how it is.Toby: Yes, totally. So, tell me, you know as a bloke, I never applied makeup myself. Tell me, generally, what the immediate sort of concerns you would have if someone was employing someone who not really done professional makeup before those they've sort of said, 'You know what, I'm not sure if I should have a professional makeup artist? I know that you're really really brilliant but my also my mate's really into it, she doesn't have any real experience like you but she said she'll do it'. You know, what are the kind of warning signs about that? I mean, obviously, it's one of those things because it's a bit arty and some people will assume it's really easy and I guess you've got a whole different technique for doing someone's wedding, as you have when you're doing a film thing, or whatever. So, what are the warnings? What kind of thing would you say to someone who's saying, 'Maybe, I'll just do it myself or get my mate to do it'. What would you say, what you need to be careful of this, then?Victoria: Well, let's face it, makeup is not a brain-science, we know that. But like any trade, there's a reason why we've gone to university which I have, there's a reason why we've worked in the industry for ten years, there's a reason why we keep getting employed and we do such a range of people from a 19-year old model from Romania with absolutely flawless skin, amazing bone structure to somebody in their eighties for a TV series, for a drama. So, we've got a massively broad range of knowledge and also many many different skins and different races, that makes big difference, as well. When you're just using your friend, yes, they can do their makeup and they'll probably look absolutely beautiful on a night-out, of course, they do because they know how to do their own face. It doesn't mean they know how to do you and it doesn't mean they know the techniques to use. Also, massive thing with a wedding is that you're probably gonna have your makeup on without being touched up, really. For about ten hours, maybe more... and you've probably got up about six o'clock in the morning, so you're absolutely shattered. And you probably only had about two hours of sleep the night before, as well. So, what we do is completely take it back to the beginning, prep the skin before we do their makeup. So, we moisturize, we plump in, we do an under-eye creams, we're doing some brightening techniques and drainage, and then we start with the makeup. We do makeup that is gonna last, we're doing primers, we're doing mattifies, we're doing bases, we're doing concealers. We're looking at the skin, 'Does this probably need foundation, maybe she doesn't want to have a full foundation on her face. But yeah, she's got a few blemishes, maybe we can just do that with concealer. Every person is completely different and only having an experience and knowing different skins can we do that, because your friend only ever gonna have done a few of her mates who probably have the similar type of makeup or big eyebrows or big lips. So, we can tailor it exactly to what you need and that is something that you have to pay for.Toby: Yes, sure. You've got that experience of definitely, obviously because the kind of TV that you're doing as well, you literally work on every type of skin type, ever.Victoria: Yeah. And we've also had to see them sit under studio lights, we've had to put on the cliff edge with the wind blowing, we've had to put them in a music video, where they've been spun around, something that's exactly come dancing where their hair is all over the places, tracing their moving. That is a very specific way of approaching makeup. Makeup may be the same, we might both use Mac, we might both use Makeup Forever but the brushes we're using, the way we're doing it, is completely different. Some people just use one foundation, on someone's face, I might use three different foundations.Toby: Wow.Victoria: Not just for the colors but just for the type, maybe the forehead is a bit shiny, maybe their nose is very dry. There's so much that goes into it. I mean, people just have to remember that you would never try *19:03, just because your mate said they could do it. Everyone has a trade, for a reason.Toby: Yeah. So, from starting with you kind of being quite humbling in saying, it's not rocket science, you then kind of come out with just a load and a ton of really kind of complex and technical things that I'm, I mean... I'm a bloke, I'm not a makeup person, so I really don't know but even that I suppose, it's those considerations that people just don't make.Victoria: They do not realise. What I'm saying is that we can all do makeup, we can all leave the house looking better than we did when we woke up, generally most women can.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: That is getting you out of the house to go to the pub with your mates, it's very different thing. Going through ten hours of dancing, getting flushed, having a glass of champagne, you know some people suffer with rosacea , acne, dryness, sweating when they're nervous. All these things happen on your wedding- you have a drink, you get flushed, you sweat, in front of everyone and they're things that we can help you deal with.Toby: Brilliant. And obviously, when going back to weddings, that's all about the photographers being able to capture you looking your best through the day and then those photos being relive forever.Victoria: Well, and also if you've had your makeup and your hair done, and you hate having your photo taken, one you're gonna feel better and two, you're not gonna be constantly go, 'Oh, hold on second, I'm just gonna touch my face. Oh hang on a second, I'm just gonna do my lipstick'. Because the photographer is just gonna take hundred photos of you and if you're calm and relaxed and if you're enjoying yourself because you're not aware of how you look. You're gonna have so many better photos.Toby: Yes.Victoria: It's just not gonna feel as awkward.Toby: Sure.Victoria: And also, makeup artists, when we get there on the morning of the wedding, we tell you things that you would never thought of. So, I do hair as well. So, before the wedding day, I'm saying to the bride, 'Don't wash your hair. Put this product the day before. Do this. Get it like that. Tell your bridesmaids this. So, we're already telling you stuff to do the day before, the week before, the month before. Have a facial, whiten your teeth, all these things is going to help you on your wedding day.Toby: Right.Victoria: Also, when I get there in the morning, I'm gonna say, 'Take your socks off. You don't want any sock marks.' You know ten minutes before you leave the church, 'Take your bra off, you're wearing a strap in this dress, you don't want bra marks, you know. Let me have a look at your back, is there any little blemishes, or spot I need to cover'.Toby: Lovely. (Laughs)Victoria: Sorry, but you know there are many things that you don't think about. 'Are you drinking enough water on the morning of your wedding? No, you just had champagne, not good enough. Drink some water, it's a long day'. You know, there are so many things that we sort of, we come in like a sergeant major going, 'Right. Sit down'. We just take you through it and hopefully, by taking a little bit of control and organising the group, you know with the six bridesmaids and the mum, and the mother-in-law that's panicking, we can just make it a lot calmer experience, a lot more organised and get you at the door on time.Toby: Great. So, what I'm getting from this from this is actually it's not just about the application of makeup, it's about the prep and even the days and maybe the week before, you kind of skill set is benefiting your clients because...Victoria: Definitely.Toby: Because you've got that down. So, that's really interesting. Tell me about men, then. What's your experience with makeup in males?Victoria: For weddings or for TV?Toby: Just well, for anything, I mean what happens there, obviously, I've never had any makeup on my face apart from when I've done TV stuff but I wonder if that's kind of changing or?Victoria: No. I mean, men are exactly being treated exact the same as women, by the eye shadow and lipsticks, so...Toby: Right. Okay.Victoria: Men in TV will be wearing probably a full face of foundation. Generally, the darker the skin, maybe the more makeup. Because the dark your skin is that more oil you produce the shiny you get. And also, it's quite a big trend now as men sort of, maybe their hair line is receding, they're losing their hair, they tend to shave their hair off. You know the whole, having a very short close crop or bald head. That's very predominant. That's even more makeup needed because the studio lights when you're filming, any shine on their head is so obvious.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: We do a lot for men. We have to do anti-shine, mattifies, we do foundation, concealer. And then, sometimes when that's on, if a man has a very pale skin, their eyebrows and eyelashes can sort of recede a little bit because we sort of taken out a lot of colour in their faces. That may actually have to build up, so maybe we put of contouring, a bit of bronzering, and maybe some mascara through the eyelashes and filling in the eyebrows a little bit just to give them a little bit more structure.Toby: So, that's kind of tele, though, isn't it?Victoria: That's TV. Yes.Toby: I mean and if you ever manage to get any a groom on his wedding day?Victoria: I have. Actually my cousin, Matthew, because I was at the church, I must have just ran over to him really quickly because him and his best man were both bald and put some anti-shine on them in about three minutes before they walked into the church. But generally, I would love to do a little bit of makeup on men because it would make such a difference to the wedding photos. And I'm not talking a full face, I'm just saying a little bit of clear anti-shines to take that shine off.Toby: Do you think people will kind of become more accepting of that?Victoria: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, I often talk to my brides about it and I even recommend things that groom could buy by himself in the morning and you know, I would always, if needed, I could always send my assistant over to do the man if it's in a different location to where I'm doing the bride.Toby: Got you.Victoria: So, that is something we could do and that's make huge difference, I really recommend it.Toby: Yeah, it's really interesting. So, the range. Obviously, you're doing and you mention strictly, as well. So, that's kind of level of tele that you're doing is literally globally, popular TV shows, and stuff.Victoria: Well, yes. So ‘Strictly’ as an example but I mean, I do things from dating show to reality show to cookery show in Morocco and a cliff-diving program in Corsica. They're all so different and they all come with a range challenges.Toby: True.Victoria: Mainly, hair. I mean, hair is the most difficult thing when you're in a location, as well. It can get difficult but yes, there are so many different things that we do in so many mental situations that unless you have a lot of experience you wouldn't be able to deal with because you'll completely panic.Toby: Sure. What's the most nuts situation you've had to deal with?Victoria: Oh gosh, I've done people's makeup struggling in their lap, at the back of cars, on the way to filming because they were late getting up. I've done people's makeup on boats, when we're moving, on trains. They're always difficult. In very wet environments from we're filming at the side, when it's cold and wet, than can be really difficult because we're all tired, fed up but we all love to make that as all the presenters as comfortable as possible and happy as possible and they have to look perfect, once on screen. So, it's kind of looking after them, grooming them up as well, which can be difficult.Toby: Sure. So, going to that the way that you're talking then, and my next question about advise to people who maybe want to get into this as a profession, it sounds like to me that you have to be very sensitive towards, obviously, not only the environment, but the people that you're working on when you're doing hair and makeup.Victoria: Yes.Toby: Because, presumably, certain characters are more comfortable in their own skin than others.Victoria: I mean, yeah. We'd probably be meeting someone at sort of 5 o'clock in the morning. They're tired, they might have been up all night with their children, and then they've got to go on air in about two hours' time and be happy and joyful and sparkling entertainment for the viewers, so, you might not have ever met in your life before and you're instantly touching their faces, really weird dynamic.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: And I think a huge part of being an makeup artist is being prepared, how you deal with people, how you deal with some stiff characters, how you deal with people who are drunk, or you know, having problems in their life. It could be all sort of things. I think, if there are two types of makeup artist, I think the ones that go further, the ones who can chat, be really relaxed, answer the same questions every day, our job is a little bit like starting a new job every day. Every time I do a new show, you start the whole process all over again. Meeting someone, getting to know them and make them like you. You know, you have to be liked, you know, you're only employed if you're liked.Toby: Yes, totally. I totally agree with that. These people that are still kind of pros in front of the camera are gonna be more used to having another sort of professional makeup artist in their face, when you go back to those private wedding clients or whatever, they presumably, some of them have never have that done.Victoria: No, and they can be the more difficult. So, even in TV land, it turns to be the newer the talent, the newer the celebrity, the more difficult they are. The old people, the people that you might think are terrible are absolutely, they just let you get on with your job. What we do find that is very difficult is convincing people to let us do our job because we're doing it for the right reason. That goes for brides, as well.Toby: Yes, sure.Victoria: You know, you're thirty, you get married, you've done your makeup, probably the same way for the last fifteen years, give or take. And then, I come in saying, 'Actually, this would look a hundred times better if you did it this way', and that's very hard for people to understand and accept to see themselves in different light. We're only doing it for the right reasons and that's why we have a trial so we can sit down for a couple of hours and I can explain to you, I promise you this is the reason why we're doing this.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: We never force anything. We don't mind if you don't want to go with our suggestions, that is absolutely fine, you're paying us. We're happy to do it but we're definitely gonna say, 'This would suit you more' or ' This would look fantastic'.Toby: Sure. It's that trust element?Victoria: Yes. Also, the biggest thing actually is people not wearing makeup, that's the biggest problem. Generally, women don't actually as much makeup as they used to, fifteen... twenty years ago, it's done better and it's getting a lot more natural looking. So, I always put false eyelashes on my brides, I think false eyelashes make the biggest difference in the world and they look fantastic if done well and they have to re-done really well.Toby: So, that's a top tip.Victoria: But you know, a lot of people put them on and they go, 'Oh my god, it's so different... Oh, I'm not used to this. Oh, it feels really strange. Oh god, I can see them'.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: And that's why we do a trial and say, 'Have it on for few hours, go home, wear it around, see how you feel and they always agree, always'.Toby: So, that there and we're getting into kind of real specific top tips. So, tell me, what are your top tips and advise for people who like the sound of the kind of career and life you've got because you've said some pretty cool things. You know, you work in tele, you work with celebs, you work in beautiful kind of rural part of England, as well and you get to travel all around the world by the sounds of it doing what you do. So, what are your tips?Victoria: Even just go into lovely homes and lovely studios, like faces I would never have ever got to have seen or eating in or gone for lunch in, if I didn't have this job.Toby: What's your favorite location, then?Victoria: Oh, gosh... I love when I go to people's homes. I'm so nosy.Toby: (Laughs)Victoria: I love it when we film in, because people homes use as locations for shoots or for filming and I love that. I love going to the big stately homes, I love going to really modern builds around London, really cool underground place, that's my favorite thing.Toby: What's the furthest away that you've been?Victoria: Oh gosh, furthest... America, on tour with a band around America. That was mildly twice the furthest I've been.Toby: Who was that?Victoria: It was with Rosie and the Goldbug and Cyndi Lauper.Toby: Wow, okay.Victoria: Rosie and the Goldbug were supporting Cyndi on her tour, so it was absolutely brilliant. That was in Europe, sorry, Rosie and the Goldbug was just in America. Sorry, that was in Europe. I'm getting confused now.Toby: So you've literally been all around the world doing what you do?Victoria: Yes.Toby: That's very cool.Victoria: But England's been even better in some senses because I've been up Scotland, I've been in a castle in Yorkshire, I've been in a creek of some pools, I've been in a underground chambers, all over the places, random places. That's why I like best, the little... the things I would never get to do in maybe another job. Very lucky.Toby: Anywhere on your hit list?Victoria: To work?Toby: Yeah.Victoria: Anyone who wants to put me in a plane or a train somewhere, I'm happy to go.Toby: (Laughs)Victoria: I don't really mind. I'd like some time off me and some money, I would actually go away by myself. (Laughs) That would be the next one.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: When you're self-employed, your too scared to ever go away in case you lose work.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: Then it is too late go anywhere.Toby: Yeah. So, actually, the novelty of being somewhere far away. I can identify with that as well, you know, being somewhere far away not working is definitely...Victoria: Yeah, that's nice. Except every time you get there, you get an email saying, 'Oh, you could have done this job' and you go... 'Ah'.Toby: (Laughs) Well...Victoria: But pros and cons of being self-employed, you know.Toby: So, let's get that question answered then- advice for people who want to get into the makeup industry?Victoria: Well, obviously, study. So, do not study beauty, it has no relevance. Being a makeup artist, I believe, people might tell you differently, but I would say myself and my peers in the makeup industry would not say beauty is an advantage. Yes, it will probably, you will do some makeup in it. You know, a few weeks of the course might be doing makeup. I notice that colleges tend to only give you one product to use so that you sort of buy makeup from one brand and that's what they use which I think is very strange and I just don't think it's covered in enough depth. There might be some amazing beauty courses that do amazing makeup classes, so if anyone wants to prove me wrong, that's great.Toby: Where did you study, then?Victoria: So, I studied art at Cornwall College. Always, say come from an art background or even come from a hairdressing background, if you want to work in TV or film, definitely do hairdressing, if you try and choose a course to do post GCSE , I'd always say hair or art, because art is going to help you fully with makeup and hair is going to help you get into the industry anyway, because not enough people can do hair and makeup and it's really big advantage. I won't say beauty because I don't think waxing legs, although an amazing career in itself, would have any benefit on being a makeup artist. So, I did art at Cornwall College and that luckily got my portfolio was strong enough that it go me into London College of Fashion to study makeup design. So, I was very lucky to get into a university that did makeup. Because a lot of people tend to go to sort of London Colleges where you have to pay, places like Grease Paint and the London School of Makeup which I think are taught by industry leaders, so I think they are incredibly good courses and very good colleges. I like the fact that I went to university to get a qualification because I just knew London College of Fashion was one of the most respected in the country and the only place where you can do a degree in makeup.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: So, that's what I did. Then, I left and I started freelancing and working for free, alongside working in pubs and bars.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: And sleeping on people's floors because you need a job where it's going to be flexible enough that you can do freelance, so if someone calls you on Tuesday saying, 'Can you come and do a makeup job for free tomorrow?' , you need to be able to say 'YES', always say yes. But also you need to pay rent, so you need to work in a bar or club, so often you're working 24 hours a day. But generally, not owning enough money to pay rent in London. So, that's when you need a family or friend to stay with. I didn't have any family or anyone in London, so I would stay on people's floors or get to know people and then just stay and rent a little room of them for cash. Until I had enough freelance work until I could drop the pub work and I could just become a freelancer and I could pay proper rent.Toby: Sure. And you've managed to, obviously, kind of literally what you wear up from sleeping on people's floors to working in really well-respected TV and all that kind of stuff.Victoria: And really lucky with the people I met.Toby: Yeah. But you're good at what you do and you now own property in London.Victoria: I do. I know, yes, ten years done and I bought a flat, which is my goal tip. So, absolutely over the moon.Toby: Well done. I've learned loads about that. It's so much more complicated than I thought it was gonna be.Victoria: I think as well, people forget that you are self-employed. You know, you're freelance, you're a tradesman. I wish looking back, I mean that did affect me buying a flat, it affects how much you can borrow. You know, it affects how much you can save. You got to pay tax twice a year, I've got a big tax due today, thirty first of July and thirty first of January. I mean, obviously, you save for it and you pave for it, you don't own the money, you don't pay the tax. But there's so much people don't know that come in to this, you have to save every receipt. You know, what can I put through...Toby: That's just being self-employed, though, isn't it? The kind of perils of being self-employed and I guess is just saying when I'm teaching the music stuff, people aren't actually being taught just how to be self-employed, it really doesn't matter what you do to earn money, if you're being self-employed. There's a shit load of stuff that you need to learn or work out yourself. That people just don't talk about when you're...Victoria: No, they don't.Toby: When you're at uni, learning your technical skill. Be at makeup or playing an instrument or being an artist, or whatever it is. People just don't sit down, you might get an hour at the end of year three or something, but people don't say, right... the reality is, exactly as you said, and I'm smiling because this just happened to me as well. On the thirty first of July and on the thirty first of January, if you live in UK, you're gonna have to give quite a lot of money to the tax man if you've had a good year. You need to be prepared for that.Victoria: And it's a year in arrears , as well. So, I've acquitted the year this year than previous year. Yeah, I'm still paying. It actually doesn't make sense of what I've got on my bank at the moment and I just bought a flat. So, these things always make a big difference and people don't always explain what you can and can't do and that's why I'd always advise having an accountant, who deals with your trade. An accountant who does carpenter's account. It might be different to a media accountant, who does an actor accounts because we can claim different things. It's very different.Toby: So, they'll know, they're specialists. I've got a fantastic specialist accountant and they do know, 'Ah, okay, because you've been away from home or because of XYZ , yeah we can account for that'.Victoria: Yeah, that coffee you had on the train, on the way to the job we can pop that in. You know, it's very sort of, lots of gray areas. So, we have to wear black a lot, when we're on set. Can we claim because it's a black outfit that I would never normally wear. You know I had to buy these Wellies because I've just been filming on a sheep farm.Toby: (Laughs)Victoria: Doing a series for TV . I might not have bough those, anyway. Can I claim those? It's very complicated areas.Toby: So, get a good professional accountant, who won't land you in trouble with the tax man. Basically.Victoria: Yeah.Toby: Cool. Okay. Sorry, you were gonna say something?Victoria: Just any other advise I just want to give to anyone going into the industry...Toby: Are you happy for people to kind of tap you up on Twitter or through your website?Victoria: Yes. I would love that. I get emails once a week from people trying to assist me or to get work experience. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to give work experience in my job because I'm not really in control of the show to say, 'Yes, you can come along'. It would just be a bit difficult and awkward, you have to sign it off and my diary would be laid for the week and within one hour, my whole diary will change around, I'll move jobs, I'll move that shift to the BBC, because that person wants a photo shoot but then, I've got to do a red carpet on that day, that means that wedding has to be moved to that day. It is constantly changing, constant headache. So, to have a work experience, it just would not work. I can get assistance in every now and then, but it doesn't mean to say there's any budget for them.Toby: Yeah. Sure.Victoria: And then, sometimes we work in very small studios, in very small makeup rooms, so an extra person just wouldn't work. It would almost be awkward. So, it's incredibly hard for girls trying to get some experience and try to get in there but there is definitely worth persisting. The assistance I've used are the ones who constantly text me and email me and you do remember people that way. Otherwise, you're just another name.Toby: Sure. That's really interesting as well. And just really quick aside, when you said just girls, so is it just girls or a guy is into this, as well?Victoria: So, in America, it's generally men. In the UK, it's generally women.Toby: Wow.Victoria: I don't know why that is. I know I've just been doing a series called 'Ladies of London', working with a male makeup artist. He's very busy, he does a lot of sort of socialite celebrities, high-ends celebrities, he's very busy. I do know a lot of male makeup artists at the BBC but it is generally women and I have no idea why because it's an art form, it's strange but you do get a lot of male makeup artists in prosthetics and in film and theater. So, whether it's just difference between the type of makeup crew you go into. You know, if there's more blood and gore and mask, maybe that's something men would be more interested in. I mean, that is absolutely my worst nightmare, I absolutely don't want anything to do with prosthetics, ever.Toby: Right.Victoria: I hate them. I hate wigs. I hate everything. But I love hair styling and I love doing updos and blowdries and beautiful looks, makeup looks and fresh pretty looks. So, that's what I do and that's what I'm good at. So, everyone has a path where they go down.Toby: Sure.Victoria: When assistants or students email me, they tend to generally say, 'I want to be a makeup artist', and then they'll say, 'Or way more' and they say, 'Or fashion and film', and then that's when you have to bring it back and say, 'You will never do both'. That's when you sort of know exactly what pathway you're gonna go down and how you're gonna tail your work experience and your assisting with what makeup artist who works in that sector.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: It's all really complicated and you've got to prepare to put your whole life over to it. You can't go to friends' birthdays, you can't go to weddings, you can't go on dates, because you'll always let people down, you will always get a job coming. When you're self-employed, if someone's going to give you two weeks work and your friend's birthday is in the middle of it in Amsterdam, you just can't go.Toby: Yeah.Victoria: It's as simple as that. Unless, you're so busy that jobs don't matter to you and you can pick and choose. And it should probably be wonderful but that's not me quite yet.Toby: Well, you're getting there, I reckon.Victoria: Yeah, I think we should start breaking this way. You never stop no matter how busy you are, your brain just takes every job you get.Toby: Yeah, it's just changing that mindset, as well to just go 'Hold on a minute, you know what I'm just gonna not take that, I'm gonna actively say no to something' and it's a big shift in behavior when you have come up through the sleeping on the floors to going to 'You know what, I'm just gonna take a night off'.Victoria: It's very weird.Toby: It's weird. I totally identify with it. You know, I've been self-employed musician before I got into the kind of business side of things and just kind of gonna go 'Hold on a minute, I'm just gonna not do this because it's better to be with my family and my friends or just have a night sitting on the sofa in the house or the flat the I've invested so much time.Victoria: Yeah. Exactly.Toby: Yes.Victoria: I've been a makeup artist for the whole of twenties and don't get me wrong, I've been out a lot, I go out, I'm very sociable, my job means I'm very sociable. There's rock parties, there's after-work drinks, after-filming drinks, it's brilliant but when you work every single weekends and your one day off maybe a Tuesday or it might be a Thursday, it means you do not have the same social life as your peers who work nine to five and then off the job. So, where my day off might be on Tuesday, I might wanna go out the Monday, but then who you gonna go out with. I know a lot of people in TV that a single life, not having children to much much later because you're working so much, you cannot physically meet someone and when you do meet someone, they're just always fed up with the fact that you're always working unsociable hours or you've got to go to bed really early because you got to be up at three for a job and that's something. If you want your life to be quite settled and quite stable, I would never ever recommend my career.Toby: (Laughs) Yes.Victoria: It's brilliant fun but it does have an effect another way.Toby: Sure.Victoria: But it's worth it, because we love it. So, it's my big love- my job. So, I'm happy the way things have gone.Toby: So, look... one question, then. How can people and where can people see your work, get in touch with you? So, I need website details and Twitter accounts and Facebook pages, tell me about... or Instagram, I don't know what else you use but tell me about that.Victoria: Okay. So, there's so many different names. I think the best thing for people do is go on www.victoriapenrosemakeup.co.uk, if you go to the home page, you'll see my Instagram account, my Twitter account, and my Facebook account. If you click any one of those, it will take you directly through these accounts and you can start following me.Toby: That is brilliant. Thank you so much.Victoria: Thank you for having me. It's been great. It's been nice to have a chat.Toby: Cool.Victoria: You made me fall back in love with my career again.Toby: (Laughs)Victoria: Instead of moaning about the tax man today.Toby: Excellent.Narrator: You're listening to PlannersPod.com.Toby: So, there you go, mate. That was my chat with Victoria Penrose, she's very lovely. What did you make of it?James: What did I make of that? I still remember the moment you came back and told me you've done an interview with a makeup artist and then subsequently, I remember you going and buying a bottle of anti-shine. Do tell us about that one, Toby.Toby: Well, hold on a minute, it's not anti-shine, it's... what it's called... a mattifier. I mean, isn't it interesting? You have a chat with someone and then a couple of days later you find yourself filming stuff for new content for Metropolis Live, thinking... 'Why is my face so shiny?' and getting a couple of texts later, exactly the product we need from Victoria. So, thanks for that. It couldn't have come up at a better time.James: Big kudos to that. I've now seen Toby walk into a makeup department and not come out empty-handed. So, anyway, let's get back into this interview. I, too, found this interview very interesting, but I'd like to add that I haven't bought makeup, yet.Toby: Yet.James: (Laughs) Yes. We both gone in on that one, didn't we? Anyway, what did I say, first thing, I love the bit where she spoke about, 'Well, I don't send photos of my clients out', Because it's all about the context of that situation and we have some direct panels in the music world that we do and what's always so fascinating is seeing these kind of parallels come into focus and then you start to realise how part of this gig and events world is actually doing the job, the others are skills of how you deal with people and situations which seem to have enormous parallels with themselves. So, Toby, do you remember the event that we did, we won't go and mention any names or places or anything, where we had a client about, I guess a few weeks ago, couple of months ago, who was probably less than calm? Do you remember that one?Toby: There are many. But yeah, I know what you're talking about. I think that, ultimately you're talking about just keeping people calm and getting their expectations sort of aligned with our cases, sometimes budget, sometimes just kind of situations, venues, etcetera. Yeah, absolutely, people are quite stressed-out when they come to us and I expect they are the same, they are kind of the same with Victoria, especially when they're not used to being dealt with every day by a makeup artist.James: Indeed. About this particular client, as she come into me afterwards, they were absolutely elated with the job that we'd done and we're panicking before. And I just remember the client coming up to me saying, 'Thank you for being so calm'. I think the thing with us as event pros, we've seen so many of these situations before that we know how to handle them. Particularly, that one that she said, 'I can advise what to do a month before, a week before, a day before', it's just... if you're not doing that everyday, you've never been through that thinking of how will that situation works and I think when you're doing with event professionals and I know you'll agree with this one, Toby... there's many many great amateurs in this world who can play amazing music but what you do when you deal professional is you guarantee consistency and that consistency then alleviates all forms of risk as well or certainly minimises them. So, I think that's a really interesting parallel that Victoria said, we can draw with what Victoria said.Toby: Yep. Totally agree. Yeah, it's incredible, isn't it? When you think about how close we think we get close to people with their personal taste. With makeup, literally touching someone's face, they don't really know her. So, yes, it's an incredible skill to relax someone enough to let them touch your face for quite a long time, potentially... before you're about to do something major. It's amazing, really.James: I'm gonna quote a phrase of what Victoria said in here... which I actually hadn’t before but obviously I've heard the sentiments... 'You got only employed if you're liked', what a great one is that, isn't it, Toby?Toby: It is. Thank God, we're liked by some people, at least. Yeah, it's good. She totally gets it, that's why she's so busy. I know Victoria sort of outside the event world, she's just... everyone loves her and she's exact, she's so perfect for what she does because obviously not only technically does she have the skill, she just gets people on side and trusting her skill, as well and that's where she gets to go and do her thing. So, yeah, wicked.James: Cool. Just all the stuff in the last five-ten minutes that you guys only hit on about working away up through the industry, it made me just draw a parallel to the interview we did with 04, ten episodes ago, with Andy Nurse. He said pretty much exactly the same thing about actually doing the technical production work he does and there's just so many great tips about how to get into, what is actually potentially a very difficult industry you can never really get into the front door and there are also some skills and techniques that you can use to get to know people and big person that people wanna hang out with. I often think, Toby, maybe we should do this in a few episodes' time but actually talk about some of our breaks that we had in the music biz and events business and talk about how those came about because I think we've both done certain things which help us along the way. What do you think about that one?Toby: Yep, it's a good idea. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? When you look stuff having to see and you think, 'Oh, I was just lucky or whatever', and you can go back ten years later, fifteen years later and say 'Okay, actually, it was these two or three things that I did in this particular order at this particular time, in front of these people that made those things align and get me in the door'. It was never 'Hello, I'm really good. Please can I have some work?', you know, that's not how you do it.James: Funny thing is, we have our work with our 'Us' tab on the website and it's staggering the amount of emails which come through to us, which is basically just say those words and expect to get response.Toby: So, the response is, 'Why us and why now?' And that is interesting, when people can be bothered to answer those two questions, then, you know that they are not just fishing for work because they're desperate but they're also kind of start telling you a little bit about why they're suited to your company which I think is a really key piece of advise and we can thank Taki Moore more for that one.James: Indeed. And the last thing I'm going to say is 'Makeup women in the UK and Makeup men in America' , I never knew that one but what I thought would be cool is can any makeup men, as we don't have them in the UK so much, why don't you leave us a comment on the blog and start off a discussion about that? I think that would be cool, wouldn't it?Toby: Yeah and you can be, perhaps, you should become one, James.James: What, buck the trend?Toby: Yeah, a makeup man. I can see that.James: Would you like me touching your face?Toby: Lord knows you need it. Not on me, you know, for your face, you need it.James: Thank you. Anyway, enough about that, peers. If you enjoyed this podcast, we'd love it if you could go to iTunes and leave us a five-star review, that would mean a hell of a lot to us.Toby: Got a couple of things, haven't we?James: Yep, indeed. Couple of great reviews. So, anyway, I'm gonna leave you back over to Toby to do the housekeeping.Toby: Right, here's the housekeeping. Do you need help with your event business? Of course, you do. Maybe you don't. But if you do, we'd love to hear from you. Just go to Metropolis-live.co.uk and find the link under 'Stage My Event' in the top menu and you can read a little bit about our approach which is pretty easy going but definitely effective and if you haven't checked out our new website, do it. Do it, now. Again, Metropolis-live.co.uk , you'll find the old video on there, where again, I'd personally like to thank Victoria for filling the details of the mattify product, we will sleep on our faces before the filming. Not sure it made much difference to our faces, especially James' butt. There you go. It's funny, isn't it? How that works out. You can find us on Facebook.com/Metropolislive , Twitter Metropolislive1 and as ever, this podcast is directly available via iTunes and Stitcher, just search for Planner's Pod and you can find a company notes, media and links from this podcast and of course, more about us on PlannersPod.com, which will actually also lead to Metropolis-live.co.uk. Thanks for listening. James, nice to be back in the seat for a couple and we'll get more contents to you now that this website's done.James: Totally. Are you off to buy your primer now, Toby?Toby: Off to buy my primer and my white spirit and yeah, couple of... I don't know, jasmine and whatever,James: Should we just leave it there?Toby: Yeah, let's stop. Thanks. See you next time.James: Bye.Narrator: You've been listening to PlannersPod.com
For Help & Advice With Your Event Contact Us